Have contact with people who have made it through

One thing that gets you through that emptiness is contact with people that have made it through. In my own personal case, if I hadn’t had the living proof of an enlightened teacher in front of me that I could see, it would have been very difficult for me to make it over the pit of the void. By the way, this expression, “the pit of emptiness,” is a Buddhist phrase. I would look at Suzaki Roshi, and that would give me the living proof that nothing bad was going to happen as the result of going into that emptiness.

I can remember vividly my first interview with him. Again, I can’t remember the exact words, I’m sort of paraphrasing. In the first interview, you officially become that person’s student, and there’s a certain intimacy because we’re speaking Japanese and he doesn’t get to speak Japanese with his students very often. It has a real intimate quality to it. And he said, “You’ve been a monk in Japan, you’ve been in this a long time, you know what this is all about. I’m tired of these wimpy American students. I expect you to get to the point where you no longer need to make an object of the self or the world ever again.”

That’s quite a trip to have laid on you! Listen carefully to his choice of vocabulary, ok? Every one of those words was chosen as carefully as a mathematician chooses the words when they want to express some deep insight. I mean it was the E=MC² of spirituality. “Reach the point where you no longer need to make an object of the self, or the world, ever again.” He didn’t say “Don’t make an object of the self or the world.”, okay? A very subtle distinction. He said, “Reach the point where you don’t need to make an object of the self or the world.”

What the heck does he mean by making an object of the self, and what the heck does he mean by making an object of the world? When the ideas and body sensations that produce the sense of self are experienced with less-than-perfect mindfulness and equanimity, the sense of self appears as a thing, an object. And when the six senses that produce the sense of an outside world are experiencing with less-than-perfect mindfulness and equanimity, the outside self appears as a thing, rather than a flow. So you don’t need to make an object of the self or world” means the compulsion to solidify the six senses into subject and object has been worked through. It doesn’t mean you don’t make an object of self or world, it just means you don’t have to.

All around the world there are individuals who have come to the point where their relationship to the sense of self - their ideas and body sensations - has gone from being a relationship of a prison to being a relationship of a home. They don’t need to make an object of those ideas and body sensations. When they experience those ideas and body sensations that produce the sense of self fully, then the sense of self doesn’t exist as an object and they’re not limited, they’re not limited to be only that.

When I looked at him, when I’d watch him in day-to-day life, it was very evident, just from his demeanor, from his body language, that he no longer needed to make an object of the self or world. In other words, he had gone from always being a thing, to only occasionally being a thing, and being mostly an activity. And two things became very evident: (1) his efficacy, his motivation, and his ability to impact and get the job done was way beyond that of a ordinary person. And (2) his happiness was beyond unbearable. So I have living proof that absolutely nothing bad could happen if I went into emptiness, because he was obviously there, and he was obviously exceedingly dynamic and exceedingly happy and effective as a human being.

So when you find yourself – if you should find yourself - facing this experience of the pit of the void, that is to say, as a result of your practice everything is peaceful, but your motivations and your emotions are going sort of flat, I would suggest you keep three things in mind.

1. Remember the axiom of consistency. Observe that state, even that. See the ideas and body sensations that come up as the result of that reaction to meditation.

2. Understand what is happening, and that it’s only a temporary stage that you go through. When you bit into an apple, the first thing your teeth encounter is the skin of the apple. But what the skin feels like is not what most of the apple feels like. In the same way, when you have your first experiences of no-self or emptiness, it may present itself as an emotionally flat, dehumanized and unmotivated state. It’s not always that, but it’s that way for some people. But understand that’s just the skin of the apple. The main meat of emptiness is much more nourishing than that.

3. Be in contact with people that have made it past the skin and are now really enjoying the meaty part, the rich part of emptiness. And that will give you some encouragement. You can talk to these people and you can also see by the way they live their lives that nothing bad will happen as the result of going from a thing to being an activity. Nothing bad will happen.

What will happen is that your compulsiveness gets replaced by dynamic behavior. So what you called motivation before is going to go, but a new kind of motivation will arise for you, which I contrast with compulsiveness. I call it dynamic. And the seeming flat emotion is just an intermediate stage along the path of your emotions being congealed to your emotions being like mist.

You might pass through a stage where they sort of flatten out. But when they become mist, they become really vibratory again, really complete, really elastic. I don’t know how else to put it. You may wonder what the heck I am trying to convey. Think of the difference between a piece of wood and a piece of rubber. Most people say they are having feelings, but it’s actually very wooden. And what happens is, the more liberated you become, the more elastic and rubbery your feelings become, the more bouncy they become.

Developing a healthy no-self

And the other thing is: take feedback from your environment. Listen to everyone. If they tell you you’re not responding in ways that are appropriate, let the no-self hear that and it will learn, it will process that feedback. How does a baby learn to walk? It falls to the right, it falls to the left, it makes a mistake in this direction, and it makes a mistake in that direction. And when it falls, it gets the feedback: “I put too much weight that way.” When it falls that way, it gets feedback. Eventually, it learns how to be balanced. That’s how the self-self learns.

The no-self learns in exactly the same way: it makes mistakes. And if it’s willing to listen to ordinary people, its environment, then it will learn from those mistakes and will become a healthy no-self. You might think it’s hard enough just to enter the no-self, but that’s only part of the challenge. Because there’s a whole range of no-self experiences from totally pathological to super-healthy. And there’s a whole range, and there’s a lot of in-betweens. But that’s another topic, and I don’t want to get off on that now.

Comments

[Irv Cohen]

Thank you for the transcriptions of Shingzen's talks! While I do like when they are given "live," there is a distinct loss when the talks are "canned." It must have been very tedious process for you.

You mention the "Community Mediation Center." I actually attended a number of sittings there between 1983-84, and I believe I do remember you, but not your name! Now, as I look back on that period and remember the 10-15 people who usually showed up for the meditation classes, I do regret not sticking with Shinzen these many years. My wife and I got off the "spiritual" track for a number of years (I always continued to read in the subject, but we know how useful that is without practice and some kind of guidance). Lately, my wife, who is Chinese, have become very interested in Buddhism,again, and we occasionally go to Monterey Park and meditate at the westcoast center of the Dharma Drum Society of Master Sheng-yen. He's getting along in years and very seldom comes out here. However, he still conducts retreats at the center in New York. My wife and I have been thinking about attending one of these this summer while he is still able to conduct them.

In a way Sheng-yen is very traditional in his approach to meditation: not much in the way of explanation, just do it! Which is fine, but what I appreciate most about Shinzen is the way in which he manages to "de-mystify" the meditation process without sucking the life out of it! I miss that.

I have decided to begin studying with Shinzen, again, but the old days are over. Those small groups of people, the opportunity to speak with Shinzen one-on-one while drinking tea and munching cookies after a class are gone. In its place will be what I will be experiencing on January llth at the Unity Church of Truth in Pomona: about 200 people! I guess I have been spoiled! I just don't enjoy meditating with large groups of people. I know, for many individuals the meditation experience is "enhanced," but not for me. Obviously, I need to meditate on "why!"

You seem to be familiar with Shinzen's recordings. He has something called "Ths Science of Enlightenment," consisting of 12 cassettes. It's about 17 hours long. Know anything about it? Do you have any personal favorite tapes to recommend? Finally, there used to be an "email link" on Shinzen's website for people to sign up for a project that Shinzen, supposedly, has been working on for years: computer-assisted meditation. Know anything about this?

You might be interested in a fellow who took a slighly different route in Buddhism. He studied for many years with Tibetan masters. His name is Ken McLeod, The title of his book is "Wake Up To Your Life." He has a website entitled "Unfettered Mind" which you also may want to check out.
--Irv COhen

[Greg]

Thanks for this! After four years...

G

[Santiago Jimenez]

Beautiful, I believe I am passing through the emptiness pit, and I gotta admit it's been very confusing, sometimes it's all real and sometimes it's all illusion, I wonder if the mind just gets used to it.

I don't have a formal teacher so it's not easy, but this is very encouraging.

All the love,

Santiago Jimenez